[Nintendo] Pokémon Franchise

[Feathers]

I know and I fully understand that Pokémon Sun and Moon were incomplete games (and poorly designed at that) and the expansion is pretty much "needed" (although it shouldn't be needed at all if they just decided to take their time at developing instead of releasing it when they did... or if the effort put into cancelling Pokémon Uranium and trampling the dreams and 9 years of hard fan work was directed into improving the original Sun and Moon), but the more I see of this game the more I'm convinced that all this should be included as a 15€ (18$) DLC patch tops rather than a 40€ (47$) brand new game.

Thank you, completely agree.

[Jinouga87]

So stuff for the post game has been shown off and it is EPCI!!! Team Rainbow Rocket is coming with all past leaders of villian teams.

[Kaijin]

I wonder what possible benefit there might be for making your mon bigger by sticking things to them as if you were a 5 year old... If they're able to attain the buffs the totem mon had it could be interesting, but then again that would restrict its use to 7 mon and some of them are useful in the early to mid game tops (Who on Earth would stick with a Gumshoos all the way to the league? The only possible good use for Gumshoos is just send it back to the Phoenix Wright franchise after all).

.P.S.: As for the postgame... I don't know what to tell you, I don't care about its possible epicness if it ends up being ridiculously short (a la Delta Episode). In 7 generations up to date we've only had two postgames that were both good and durable: Gen II and Gen V's (the more I think about it the more it enrages me that Gen V is one of the most (if not the most) hated generations since it had plenty of good points and made quite a few things way better than some of the most loved and popular gens).

[Flare]

Hmmm... Round 2 against Lysandre? I'd be down for that. And looking at the list of version-excusives out here... may be going for Ultrasun here.

[DecafPirate]

The Rainbow Rocket thing really confuses me with using Maxie and Archie's old designs. Like, is ORAS no longer canon? This can't be the same universe as the gen I-V since the SUMO universe does have Mega Evolution and ORAS implied Gen I-V is an alternative universe where Mega Evolution doesn't exist. What the hell is going on here? This is confusing.

[Pokemonaces]

With the news coming out before it's release, I'll just have more legend arise that will take space in my box since I never use them XD

I'm getting both games, which will make managing both games a pain, but worth it

[Kaijin]

The Rainbow Rocket thing really confuses me with using Maxie and Archie's old designs. Like, is ORAS no longer canon? This can't be the same universe as the gen I-V since the SUMO universe does have Mega Evolution and ORAS implied Gen I-V is an alternative universe where Mega Evolution doesn't exist. What the hell is going on here? This is confusing.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, being post game content they're pretty much free to treat that as a little easter egg to reward their old school fanbase and thus consider it as not canon (kinda like they did with BW2's PWT).

[Kaijin]

It's been half a week since the "oh so great" and ULTRA revamped Alola experience's release (that this time around it has been worldwide) and nobody has said anything about it at all? Odd... Either this game got you all enthralled to the point of forgetting about TMM for weeks... or there's nothing worth being mentioned on it.

While I might normally consider getting it once its price drops, I know that's impossible since it's a game released by a Nintendo second party and on a Nintendo system (Nintendo never drops its prices, Pokémon X/Y still cost as much as the day they were released) and if they did it would increase rather than dropping. So in order to determine if it worth spending 40 € on something that should cost an amount between 5 and 15 € and being a DLC, I'm doing some research by watching LPs from several pokétubers and checking out impressions at several Pokémon based communities (everybody deserves a second chance... even if it's more than fair to say that Game Freak hasn't earned it this time around).

The only thing able of making me doubt so far is the fact that this time around I can actually start with a starter ported from my Pokébank or do a starterless run (since I still dislike all three starters with a passion... even though I admit that Junaiper/Decidueye's good for capturing and/or chain triggering purposes and Incineroar earned my respect in the same way Chesnaught did on Pokémon X).

.P.S.: However I DO admit that I'm heavily disappointed with how Dusk form was made, it's pretty much Midday form with its stats slightly tweaked and a different colour (even though I reckon that having both Midday and Midnight's movepools combined can be regarded as nice touch).

[Feathers]

Yeah I didn't buy it. Never even made it past the second challenge in Sun or to second leader in X, so I doubt I'd do much else. Got really bored waiting on Pokebank then I just stopped playing. Not keen on buying the (mostly) same game twice, either.

[Flare]

Combonation of waiting until after the new year to get it and been busy with other things here.

[DogKama]

Didn't buy it either. Honestly, the game doesn't interest me much as more information was released. That and I've been working many hours a week to the point I wouldn't even have the time to grind through the game again.

[Kaijin]

I thought as much... (Game Freak went too far this time around after all, They just pulled off a FIFA on us).
I guess we won't see much activity in this thread until the Switch game becomes a reality (even though I won't play it most likely as I don't have any interest in owning a Switch and I'm not the kind of guy who buys a console only for one game).

.P.S.: Menawhile I'll just wait for Digimon Cyber Sleuth's sequel (I'm not particularly hyped but after playing the first game I'm curious to see how it will turn out).

[Jinouga87]

I've been playing it off and on. Animal Crossing Pocket Camp and Sonic Forces Speed Battle have me hooked as well. As for Ultra Sun the game is well done though Mantine Surfing is just a mini-game but it does give BP every time you do it.

[Feathers]

Hopefully they listen to the negative feedback and stop getting ridiculous with these overpriced phantom DLCs disguised as "remakes". Then again business is business I suppose, and business ain't pretty. People keep buying and they will keep doing it, and stretching it as far as possible.

[Jinouga87]

Hopefully they listen to the negative feedback and stop getting ridiculous with these overpriced phantom DLCs disguised as "remakes". Then again business is business I suppose, and business ain't pretty. People keep buying and they will keep doing it, and stretching it as far as possible.

Yet people want a Gen 4 remake. As for US&UM I can actually say the game isn't just a phantom DLC. There are actual changes to the story and other major things like trials. Spoilers are below read them at your own risk.

Spoiler: show

The Ultra Recon Squad play a role and pop up throughout the game. Nekrozma stole the light of their world so they're in ours conducting research and working with Lusamine later on. After Nekrozma takes over Nebby he lays the smackdown on Lunamine inside Ultra Space.

While I haven't seen all the trials some of them are changed like having a new Totem and a few trials have been added. Mallow's trial is still about gathering stuff but doesn't use Stoutland.

Team Rainbow Rocket appears in the postgame for a bit but I haven't got there yet.

The RotomDex now has a Roto Loto feature that gives the players items and even an extra Z-Move in battles. Th downside to this is you have to keep watching the bottom screen for Rotom's eyes to light up or if he's sad. The gimmick was rushed though the items can be useful.

In place of Zygarde cells and cores there are now Totem Stickers all over. When you collect them you get Totem sized version of certain Pokemon.

[Feathers]

I don't mind a remake if the game is at least years old, man. At least the technological differences will be an actual big step up (Dragon Quest 7 Remake for example, THAT'S a remake). 1 year...that's just a dick move and it left a tremendously bad taste in my mouth. Early remakes are killing game progression, in my opinion.

It's like they are saying, well we didn't have money to add that stuff because we are on a budget, so let's do it later and call it a remake! Yeah! I'm just I didn't get hosed since a friend bought Sun as a present for me, heh. I haven't bought a Pokémon game since Black, which I LOVED.

People are afraid to move on to new things or what? All these years and no REAL 3D Pokémon since XD, that's just sad. Trading is useless now, and mobile is gonna kill every handheld anyway, so.. SWITCH IT UP NINTENDO!

Nintendo is reminding me of EA more and more. They are just more clever about it, heh. Want DLC..err "new original content"? Better buy the ENTIRE game again, chaps!

Also, Pokémon really needs a speed mode (and auto battle mode for those annoying bush steps against weaklings, or at least a "smash" feature for super weaklings) already, like most RPGs do now. I don't wanna stop ALL animations, I wanna speed them up!

[DogKama]

I don't mind a remake if the game is at least years old, man. At least the technological differences will be an actual big step up (Dragon Quest 7 Remake for example, THAT'S a remake). 1 year...that's just a dick move and it left a tremendously bad taste in my mouth. Early remakes are killing game progression, in my opinion.

It's like they are saying, well we didn't have money to add that stuff because we are on a budget, so let's do it later and call it a remake! Yeah! I'm just I didn't get hosed since a friend bought Sun as a present for me, heh. I haven't bought a Pokémon game since Black, which I LOVED.

People are afraid to move on to new things or what? All these years and no REAL 3D Pokémon since XD, that's just sad. Trading is useless now, and mobile is gonna kill every handheld anyway, so.. SWITCH IT UP NINTENDO!

Nintendo is reminding me of EA more and more. They are just more clever about it, heh. Want DLC..err "new original content"? Better buy the ENTIRE game again, chaps!

Also, Pokémon really needs a speed mode (and auto battle mode for those annoying bush steps against weaklings, or at least a "smash" feature for super weaklings) already, like most RPGs do now. I don't wanna stop ALL animations, I wanna speed them up!

From what I heard Pokemon on the Switch is going to break traditional norms for the series the way Breath of the Wild did for Zelda. They(forgot you) said they're looking for a way to shatter what's expected and go from there. I'm personally hoping for a Blue and Red remake like Firered and Leafgreen but open(like) world.

[Kaijin]

Yet people want a Gen 4 remake.

Yes, they still do (myself included), and it makes sense since it's been more than 10 years since its original release (Game Freak always used to release a remake of a generation once it surpassed the 5 years barrier), a good way to refresh it (gameplay mechanics get really old and really fast in the Pokémon franchise), a way to introduce it to the younger fanbase (because let's face it, it's the sector Game Freak truly cares about) and they kept teasing us with small details during the whole Gen VII (when I saw that they chose the Gen IV farmer designs as the breeder trainers for Gen VII I shed a nostalgic tear or two).

But in the end, we got... virtual blue balls


This is what I got from Gen VII

As for Ultra Sun/Moon I'm not saying that they're good nor bad games (I do want to believe that they're good games since they're using a good pair of games as their skeleton after all), but pretty much they're the Emerald of Gen VII (however, unlike with Emerald/Platinum/Crystal this was an avoidable scenario, since back then DLCs weren't an option, but now this could have been implemented as a DLC update patch in the E-shop).
And I'm not saying that they didn't include anything at all, they tweaked things and added some content here and there... however if it feels more complete than other similar titles (like let's say...Emerald) it's because the original Sun/Moon were incomplete and unfinished games (thing that was pretty obvious once you arrived to the third island).

This two titles could have been better if they followed Gen V formula and be a direct sequel rather than an "expansion", it's true that the original games weren't finished but their story was nicely finished, so a sequel in which we could see how the original cast have developed so far would've been a more sensible choice (or even a game/set of games focused on Lillie's growth as Pokémon trainer in her journey through Kanto).
They could even have done something that Gen V failed to do back then: using the save data of the original Gen VII games (if there's some that is) in order to use it as the final obstacle and make your former playable character (with his/her team from back then) as the League Champion and make the perfect way to close the Alola experience.

Anyway... I appreciate your efforts and I'll take your words into consideration.

.P.S.: Just in case... Gen IV is NOT my favourite generation.

[Perentie]

Been very busy with holiday-related work and being away so haven't remembered to comment. Currently most of the way through the main story in Ultra Sun and gotta say that while a lot of the early game feels like a repeat of the original, the aesthetic updates to Alola are beautiful and it can actually be rather fun to search out and note all the little and major things that were changed from Sun and Moon (many of the trials have had notable things changed). Mantine Surf also has proven to be quite an enjoyable way to earn BP.

Once you get to Poni island though, things take quite an epic turn compared to the original Sun and Moon, the Ultra Space plot culminating in an amazing boss battle.

Spoiler: show

Instead of a venom-crazed woman fused with a jellyfish you fight a pain-crazed god-like dragon made largely of light that has a stat total higher than Arceus (and then gets a Totem-style boost to all its stats except HP) and a moveset that can hit a huge number of type super effectively.

For good or bad though, games like these have been a tradition for pokemon ever since Yellow version (i.e. a version that comes out not long after the initial pair and has a similar story but various additions and improvements). As Kaijin noted, there is less legitimate reason for Nintendo to make these "third" versions these days, but traditions can be hard to break, especially if profit is involved.

My point only being that its not some new thing they are doing to make money, its something they've done to make money right from gen 1. At least we get a hopefully new tradition now of mid-generation games introducing entirely new pokemon in addition to new forms.

Once I finish up Ultra Sun though and have seen most all the new story has to offer, I'm looking forward to getting eggs to transfer to Ultra Moon and play through it at a leisurely pace with a team of pokemon who got great new egg, level up or tutor moves. I've wanted for so long for Rapidash to get Earthquake, but High Horsepower is the next best thing.

[Kaijin]

As Kaijin noted, there is less legitimate reason for Nintendo to make these "third" versions these days, but traditions can be hard to break, especially if profit is involved.

Taking into consideration that the Japanese fanbase is seriously mauling Game Freak because of this particular set of games and this may (and most likely will) severely tarnish the franchise's reputation once again (Pokémon was about to disappear back in Gen I because of the original poor reception it had in the land of the rising sun), they might start considering if certain traditions are worth keeping intact or not...