The Monster Multiverse

Note: This topic can also serve as AI companion discussions in general as well.

This question poll is (after seeing Kickstarter Indies using polls, I can realize their effectiveness even MORE when designing a game!) related to the game I am working on, Myth Years Away!.

I am wondering in general what people prefer in video games when it comes to AI partners. I'm planning on making an AI for the computer that can fight for you in a semi real time turn based battle system (like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon LINK TO EXPLAIN BATTLE SYSTEM = Funny enough, I never knew about this battle system, it just happened to be the same as how I wanted mine to be. I was happy to find the game though, because it makes a good visual example of it.

I'd like to make a FULL REAL TIME battle system, but I lack the coding skill to do so myself. I also do not want to copy paste someone else's script and have it look exactly like someone else's RPG Maker battle system. That would also mean more sprite work, so there's another reason for my decision. I am confident that I can design a semi real time turn based battle system, and I already have an alpha version going. I have some experience in designing AI teammates in Oblivion and Morrowind as well, so I do have some background on how to program them from a logic baed level.

In my opinion a battle system can make or break a game, and same goes for the AI. (I don't mean to trickle into battle system discussion here, but AI partners are intertwined within it, so I guess it can't be avoided.) I literally quit Ni Nu Kuni because the AI teammates were PLAIN AWFUL, so I'm well aware on what to watch out for. Now when you look at the AI possibilities in Dragon Quest for example, it adds to immersion, takes a load off mashing the same input commands, and can add more randomness to the game. I don't plan on making extremely complicated battles since I'm starting off, but I'd like them to be quick and fun. Apart from boss battles that is, which I'd take advice on.

Personally I love to have an AI teammate because it makes them feel more "alive". I'm talking about AI that can make correct choices, like how it was done in FF12, where they heal you when you had an X% of your health lowered, cured poisons when they could, attacked your target, etc. I don't like full blown auto battles, because I like to control the main character myself. Watching a game play itself (even in a "grind" environment) does not appeal to me..

I don't know how popular AI teammates are here though. So before I design a battle system for my game, I'd like to know what would be enjoyed by people here before I delve into programming it.

It depends on how well the AI is programmed. I've seen some great moments from AI teammates... and some royally derptacular moments in the same game of Left 4 Dead 2. *Looks at AI-Louis, who seems to have a habit of annoying Witches...even ones that are out of the way.*

Some AI in general can be derpy. It can be fun to watch.

Flare wrote:*Looks at AI-Louis, who seems to have a habit of annoying Witches...even ones that are out of the way.*

Really? My Left 4 Dead 2 A.I. buddies helped me get that "no Witches disturbed" achievement.


On-topic, I also like A.I. teammates. Less thinking.

For me it mainly depends on what game we're talking about, sometimes I like them and other times I really wish they would die in a fire so that they stop making it easier for the enemies/boss/environment/etc to kill me. (I'm looking at you Nozomi, spamming attacks that get nulled and making the enemy smirk so that it wipes half my team in one shot...)

I haven't played a lot of games with AI teammates, so I can't really say. Though I suspect that I probably wouldn't like the concept.

Ai teammates can either be good, like the ones in Left 4 dead 2, those guys can save your ass faster than a normal player would, they can take down specials like nothing, they need help here and there, but otherwise they can take care of themselves, and take care of you while doing it

Resident Evil 6: while it isn't exactly that useful, they have unlimited ammo,good accuracy and can take care of themselves, will save you more than a normal player as well since you don't have to worry about the A.I teammate (has unlimited health)

Payday 2: post patch 11# they can carry you through a mission, no joke


Or bad and be a constant drag:
Examples:
Lost planet 2: Braindead A.I that doesn't do crap, pretty much soloing a mission since they can die as much as they want, you can't

Resident evil 5: can't take care of itself and will constantly waste the ammo you've been saving on the chest of a normal enemy, wastes it on bosses that have weakpoints by shooting it in their armored areas, cannot take care of itself and will constantly die due to it running out of ammo

These are all the examples I could think of.

The worst AI that comes to mind for me is Legend of Mana (ironic, my favorite game has the worst AI). I tried and tried to get around it, but in the end, the AI was plain bad and was only good for having an extra HP bar to take the hits. I would stand around for a good 15 seconds sometimes waiting for her to finally attack. That's what made me realize that a full real time battle system may not be the way to go for me. If pro game devs have trouble doing it right, I certainly would as well.

Now for those who have played Tales of games, they have split second reaction time for rezzes, heals, guards etc. which shows the true power of AI in an RPG..

Feathers wrote:The worst AI that comes to mind for me is Legend of Mana (ironic, my favorite game has the worst AI). I tried and tried to get around it, but in the end, the AI was plain bad and was only good for having an extra HP bar to take the hits. I would stand around for a good 15 seconds sometimes waiting for Elle to finally attack. That's what made realize that a full real time battle system may not be the way to go for me. If pro game devs have trouble doing it right, I certainly would as well.

Now for those who have played Tales of games, they have split second reaction time for rezzes, heals, guards etc. which shows the true power of AI in an RPG..

Oh yeah i remember playing it...when I got the three characters i simply plugged my friend in to play with 2 players and be done with it, AI was just plain bad, much like you said

you don't have to make an Ai completely badass and able to carry you (Left 4 dead 2 on some cases and Payday 2), must make them self sustaining and able to take care of themselves, much like GTA 5's AI where If i was playing with one of the three protagonist in a mission which they all take part in, the other two would still hold their ground and kill enemies by themselves, they wouldn't need constant babysitting like resident evil 5 (jesus christ that AI just pissed me off)

In Mabinogi, you have access to pets which you can customize the AI to. they come with 4 basic AI's but you can alter them to your taste. i often find them helpful when they are on Auto attack, and more often than not are smart enough to not run into an enemy who's prepared a counterattack.

In the same game you also during the main storyline or certain missions fight alongside NPC's. these vary in usefulness. During the Saga storyline i have 2 good example of both. Early on in the story, a girl name Millia help you...."helps". shes utterly useless. However, her teacher Akule is more often than not stronger than the player

Actually, come to think of it, in The Secret World, the AI teammates that work with you aren't all that bad. They're perfectly capable of taking on, and killing, enemies by themselves. Though I can't say the same about Skyrim, since the Housecarls could be way behind me before they actually help me with killing a monster.

(Only two games with AI teammates I can think of)

It all depends on the game; some games got great AIs and others got crappy AIs. So the only way to know if an AI is good or bad, it's thru trial and error.

Pikmin AI is really bad though.

So in your opinions, a good AI is one you can rely on and to be consistent? That's what I like anyway. I like "super unpredictable moves" also, to add a "Wow!" to my companion's performance. Though I know some people can become spoiled and wait or expect that super move (huge nuke, huge heal, etc.) too much.

Feathers wrote:So in your opinions, a good AI is one you can rely on and to be consistent? That's what I like anyway. I like "super unpredictable moves" also, to add a "Wow!" to my companion's performance. Though I know some people can become spoiled and wait or expect that super move (huge nuke, huge heal, etc.) too much.

I like having an AI that can take of itself on its own, because then I can focus on keeping myself alive in a tough fight.
Because on most games that I have to babysit my AI companions, stuff ends up falling apart and I end up doing everything myself (mass effect 2 on insanity difficulty, where my Ai teammates are almost always down and I am left fighting alone)

A self sutained Ai that can survive on its own without getting on your way, saving you here and there is good, because then you can focus on your surivival on a hard difficulty, knowing that they can survive a bit on their own

It actually depends on the circumstances... On some cases you'll be grateful to have them on others you'll be cursing their existence.

Playing Little Big Planet on online multiplayer made me both appreciate and miss having an AI partner... Between the selfish players who give no craps about co-op and the retarded players that don't even know how to jump even if all buttons were for jumping a la classic Sonic that game becomes a burden to play online... and makes you wish to replace those people with AI instead...

Of course that cases like Sonic 2... makes you despise AI with all of your soul...

http://www.sonicstadium.org/wp-content/ ... pecial.jpg
I curse you Tails I curse you and your cute and useless fluffiness

I don't like nor hate AI teammates. I simply bear with them, sometimes better sometimes worse...way worse...

It's funny you mentioned Tails, because I am planning on "teaching" the Harpy in my game to assist with height issues (she can carry you up to an unreachable cliff if certain conditions are met). The idea was even inspired from Tails, since I ALWAYS wanted him to carry me properly instead of having to grab controller #2. A huge reason why I am going for semi real time is to avoid the issues that Sonic and LoM had.

I'm not sure, honestly. I guess it kind of depends on the game. Some games, AI can be helpful whereas other games, it can just be annoying.

For some reason I find bad AI really endearing. They need me in order to survive on their own. It's even more fun when I can "exploit" a bad AI and make it look good. I often give my AI teammates better gear and stat items than my own character, to help them keep on par with me. Usually they can sometimes become "overpowered" and even make me look weak!

It's really fun watching a weak helpless teammate eventually become MY protector thanks to my nurturing their development. The first one that comes to mind is Pia from Rune Factory 3. At first she was a helpless little mermaid weakly whacking things with a giant fish and dying in a few hits. Once I geared her up with enchanted gear and put a special pendant around her neck..she was an unkillable Mermaid goddess of justice. She probably could of killed my Hero instantly..it was amazing! I was proud (like a father) knowing that it was my effort that made her so strong.

The only AI that frustrates me is the "civy" or "villager" units that die in 1 single hit. Often their AI runs them straight into the enemy or has them running around aimlessly, (I'm looking at you, Fire Emblem Awakening Villagers..) which causes them to die instantly, resulting in a re-load(s). >_>

I like to control because some of the time the AI can't do anything unless I hit them. Worse is when you have to protect the AI teammate and they seem to run into gunfire without concern or listening to your warnings.

There are some games where I trust the AI though like Final Fantasy. I just set the commands and heal-attack-defend-attack. Can be set on my party members.